From shooshie@onramp.net Thu Mar 31 01:13:31 EST 1994 Article: 2478 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!ramp14.onramp.net!user From: shooshie@onramp.net (Shooshie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: Re: Interested in thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Date: 30 Mar 1994 13:12:39 GMT Organization: Shooshie's Place Lines: 58 Message-ID: References: <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <2naat2$im9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ramp02.onramp.net Xref: news.columbia.edu alt.folklore.computers:67409 comp.misc:17254 alt.amateur-comp:2478 comp.bbs.misc:8628 comp.human-factors:8196 talk.philosophy.misc:14305 In article <2naat2$im9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, hauben@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Hauben) wrote: > > I am sorry that you (and others) misunderstood my post. ... I was asking for > discussion. > -Michael Discussion you get. Yes, obviously this is a very pertinent topic, Michael, but I would hardly call it new or unusual. I think I see the underlying point that you are trying to make, namely, that almost surreptitiously this usage of the computer has crept into our lives and into the computer world in general. We all are using it now, and it is one of the biggest paradigm shifts that has hit the world. Its effects are global and no one can even begin to predict the possible outcomes. In spite of the enormity of its effect, it's hard to say where this usage orginated, and how it became so widespread so quickly and almost silently. The majority of people in the world still do not know it exists. Maybe that's NOT what you were refering to, though. I really do not want to wade through all your quotations again. BTW, when quoting a publication, especially a serious one like Scientific American, please include volume #, date, and page #. Some of that stuff sounded pretty old. Also, maybe if you zeroed in on a thread a little more closely we could generate something of interest here. Gads! We don't want to do a history of the computer, do we? How many thousands of times has that been relegated to textbooks? You say you don't want to talk about the Internet, but how can you talk about the one without the other? Is it man's RELATIONSHIP to these computers you want to discuss? How we can sit all night in front of a CRT and experience cyberspace? The changing relationship we have with each other? IMO, the real seed of your discussion is in the last couple of paragraphs you posted: >It is already apparent, that because such a system binds the >members of a community more closely together, many of the >problems will be ethical ones.... > >How will access to the utility be controlled. Who will regulate >its use? To what ends will the system be devoted, and what >safeguards can be devised for its misuse. It is easy to see that >the progress of this new technique will raise many soical questions >as well as technical ones." This is stuff with which I am especially concerned, and about which I have been writing a lot. Now, I'm intelligent enough to analyze your post and extract your essential meanings. Be a good guy, though, and don't make me have to. Please clarify just what you mean and what you want to discuss. BTW: you really have a problem with double "l" on the keyboard. Excercise that finger! That right, Jethro? [Jethro nods.] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Shooshie@onramp.net |"Already I can smell the Lion's | breath at dusk." | -- MG Roberts ------------------------------------------------------------------- From cravener@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Thu Mar 31 01:13:32 EST 1994 Article: 2482 of alt.amateur-comp Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!news.Hawaii.Edu!uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!cravener From: cravener@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Patty Cravener) Subject: Re: Interested in thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Message-ID: Sender: news@news.Hawaii.Edu Organization: University of Hawaii References: <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <2naat2$im9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 02:57:49 GMT Lines: 13 Xref: news.columbia.edu alt.folklore.computers:67457 comp.misc:17259 alt.amateur-comp:2482 comp.bbs.misc:8661 comp.human-factors:8214 talk.philosophy.misc:14339 O.K. guys - Thanks very much for the really witty follow-ups to the kid's post (we do have a lot of creative people in this newsgroup, don't we?) but it seems he really doesn't know what an old question he has asked... So, (michael, was it?) here's one tip: gopher to the WELL and catch up on CMC, Social Implications thereof... (gopher.well.sf.ca.us) Aloha... pc From eclipse@clark.net Thu Mar 31 01:13:37 EST 1994 Article: 2483 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!eclipse From: eclipse@clark.net (Jim Huddle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: Re: Interested in thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Date: 31 Mar 1994 05:09:19 GMT Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA Lines: 39 Message-ID: <2ndltv$4pa@clarknet.clark.net> References: <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <2naat2$im9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: news.columbia.edu alt.folklore.computers:67461 comp.misc:17260 alt.amateur-comp:2483 comp.bbs.misc:8665 comp.human-factors:8215 talk.philosophy.misc:14346 Michael Hauben (hauben@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : >>"What is the advancement that the computer as a communications : >>device has introduced?" : is not "homework." Understanding the computer as a communications : device as opposed to the computer as a computational device is a : real question that deserves thought and contemplation. I wasn't asking : for "answers" to a stock question. I was asking for people's opinions : about an under-evealuated question, I was asking for discussion. My : -Michael Thanks for having the balls to clarify after being slapped in the face. There are (way too many) "do my homework" posts. I think that as a firsthand victim of some of the heat of that phenomenon, you probably already know two ramifications of comp comm: 1. "do my homework" proliferates 2. miscommunication causes unwarrented heat Frankly, my biggest "MegaTrend" is this: There is a large subgroup that NEEDS this kind of information exchange. That is the Poverty-Level-to-lower-middle-class group. They are the target of many marketing schemes. They are by and large undereducated. They have no "connections" (grit your teeth when you say that, Lovey) And, unfortunately, as usual, that subgroup will be the last to benefit from internet. The most obvious internet subgroup is the "technically advantaged" (i.e. computer dweeb) U-M class white folk? I wouldn't be suprised. 9 outta 10 of my Inet friends fit the bill. We should start a movement to get internet nodes into inner city missions and such, so that people can get educated and connected. more instantaneous blather from: -Jim Huddle "Does not represent the views of Major Tom or any Bowie persona" From jlee@smylex.UUCP Thu Mar 31 01:13:38 EST 1994 Article: 2473 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!news.media.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tscs!smylex!jlee From: Jeff Lee Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: Re: Interested in thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Message-ID: <747-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 07:02:02 EST References: <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Wyvernwood, Trimaris (Tampa, FL) Lines: 16 Xref: news.columbia.edu alt.folklore.computers:67341 comp.misc:17236 alt.amateur-comp:2473 comp.bbs.misc:8595 comp.human-factors:8183 talk.philosophy.misc:14260 In article <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, hauben@ciao.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Hauben) writes: > > I am in a Computing and Humanities class, and I am > researching the following question: > > "What is the advancement that the computer as a communications > device has introduced?" Getting students' term papers written without the need to do any research... :-) ===== Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com ===== ===== SCA: Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook, Trimaris Barque Herald ===== ===== Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules ===== "Why would a haddock kill itself? Why am I even asking that question?" From shooshie@onramp.net Thu Mar 31 01:13:39 EST 1994 Article: 2475 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!ramp14.onramp.net!user From: shooshie@onramp.net (Shooshie) Newsgroups: comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: RE:Interested in Thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Followup-To: comp.misc,alt.amateur-comp,comp.bbs.misc,comp.human-factors,talk.philosophy.misc Date: 30 Mar 1994 01:19:57 GMT Organization: Shooshie's Place Lines: 59 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ramp14.onramp.net Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.misc:17243 alt.amateur-comp:2475 comp.bbs.misc:8609 comp.human-factors:8186 talk.philosophy.misc:14281 In article <2n7p1a$3fq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, hauben@ciao.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Hauben) wrote: >I am in a Computing and Humanities class, and I am >researching the following question: > >"What is the advancement that the computer as a communications >device has introduced?" ... >..."What new capability or role or utility can the computer help >fulfill? Tracing the evolution of the computer as a >communications device should prove helpful to answering this >question." > >When I speak of computer as a communications device, I am >focusing on the role in which the computer plays in helping people >communicate with other people.... > >...Examining the computer as a communications device >rather than as a computational machine might seem fairly new. >However, it is a theme which has [been] thought about ever since the >... late 1950s, early 1960s. Er... yes, seems like I do recall some really serious discussion of it: : Jethro, seein's how we're enterin the space age and all thet, whyn't ye jes go down and get us one of them computational machines? : Wow! I'se hopin you'd say that, Paw, Cause I done ready did it! And guess what... we gonna communicate with this thang! Looky here, Paw... you jus talk in here in this little thangy, and it comes out over there! I'se gonna call it TCP-IP (Talkin ComPuter-Instead 'o Phone) : Whell, now Jethro, OK, but jus' don't you be gettin any of them wiiild ideas of yours about talkin coochi-coo to Mr. Drysdale's daughter with that TCP-IP. : See Jethro, I TOL' you Paw was on to you... I TOL' you so!!!! : Oh... shoot! I guess these computational machines ain't NEVER gonna be used for communications after all! Dangit! So much for TCP-IP... hey, I know... I could use this thang to be a double-naught spy! Hey Paw!... Cut to commercial for the complete works of Alfred North Whitehead, a 100 LP set - hi fidelity - in beautifully packaged slipcovers. Gee, isn't it a shame that Jethro didn't succeed? We might actually be using computers as communications devices now. What a novel idea! Give that young man a medal; and give Jethro one, too. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Shooshie@onramp.net |"Already I can smell the Lion's | breath at dusk." | -- MG Roberts ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ematias@dgp.toronto.edu Thu Mar 31 01:13:40 EST 1994 Article: 2476 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!dgp.toronto.edu!ematias Newsgroups: comp.misc,talk.philosophy.misc,comp.human-factors,comp.bbs.misc,alt.amateur-comp From: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) Subject: Re: Interested in Thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Message-ID: <1994Mar29.223932.6783@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto References: Date: 30 Mar 94 03:39:32 GMT Lines: 21 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.misc:17245 talk.philosophy.misc:14292 comp.human-factors:8188 comp.bbs.misc:8612 alt.amateur-comp:2476 >shooshie@onramp.net (Shooshie) wrote: > > Er... yes, seems like I do recall some really serious discussion of it: > > : Jethro, seein's how we're enterin the space age and all thet, > whyn't ye jes go down and get us one of them computational machines? > > : Wow! I'se hopin you'd say that, Paw, Cause I done ready did it! > [stuff deleted] > You know, I'm really tempted to add this to the FAQ... :-) Edgar -- Edgar Matias Input Research Group, Dynamic Graphics Project Computer Systems Research Institute, University of Toronto -- Never underestimate the power of a well-worded question... From shooshie@onramp.net Thu Mar 31 01:13:42 EST 1994 Article: 2477 of alt.amateur-comp Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!ramp14.onramp.net!user From: shooshie@onramp.net (Shooshie) Newsgroups: comp.misc,talk.philosophy.misc,comp.human-factors,comp.bbs.misc,alt.amateur-comp Subject: Re: Interested in Thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Followup-To: comp.misc,talk.philosophy.misc,comp.human-factors,comp.bbs.misc,alt.amateur-comp Date: 30 Mar 1994 12:19:35 GMT Organization: Shooshie's Place Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <1994Mar29.223932.6783@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ramp02.onramp.net Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.misc:17253 talk.philosophy.misc:14302 comp.human-factors:8195 comp.bbs.misc:8624 alt.amateur-comp:2477 In article <1994Mar29.223932.6783@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) wrote: > > >shooshie@onramp.net (Shooshie) wrote: > > > > Er... yes, seems like I do recall some really serious discussion of it: > > > > : Jethro, seein's how we're enterin the space age and all thet, > > whyn't ye jes go down and get us one of them computational machines? > > > > : Wow! I'se hopin you'd say that, Paw, Cause I done ready did it! > > [stuff deleted] > > > > You know, I'm really tempted to add this to the FAQ... :-) > > Edgar > -- > Edgar Matias > Input Research Group, Dynamic Graphics Project > Computer Systems Research Institute, University of Toronto Yes, Dr. Matias, you have my permission to publish this broadly in the interest of promoting communications on computational devices about communications on computational devices. It is essential that all voices in the continuing discussion be made available and widely disseminated. This rare footage... er... quotage... was lost on the cutting room floor during some early Internet debatage, back when it was mostly NSFage and NASAsage. Thanks to recent researchage in the practicality of communicatage capacitance of these thingys, it is now being made available to the academy. Shooshie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Shooshie@onramp.net |"Already I can smell the Lion's | breath at dusk." | -- MG Roberts ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Tim_Bakke@ortel.org Thu Mar 31 01:14:34 EST 1994 Article: 8204 of comp.human-factors Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!uop!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!otsrvr!Tim_Bakke Message-ID: <37879774.41956990@otsrvr.ortel.org> Date: 30 Mar 1994 09:30:03 -0800 From: Tim_Bakke@ortel.org (Tim Bakke) Organization: Oregon Telcom Reply-To: Tim_Bakke@ortel.org Subject: Re(2): Interested in Thoughts on the Computer as a Communications Device Distribution: world Newsgroups: comp.human-factors Lines: 12 You know... I joined this group because I thought it was a place for professionals (regardless of age or education) to discuss topics that cover the area of how computers and humans interact. Yet, I see a student who, in my estimation, asks a serious question, gets negative comments back regarding that question, REDIFNES his question to satisfy his _critics_ and continues to receive posts that are more sophmoric than the original post the man has taken shots for in the first place. I recently joined this area and was impressed with the way it was handled. Perhaps I was premature? Sent from Oregon Telcom